TOLEDO, Ohio —
As the war against racism continues, dialogues on race relations are beginning to become more front and center across the country, world, and even right here in our own community.
The death of George Floyd, a black man who died at the hands of a white officer in Minneapolis, has sparked the outrage and protests from a collective diverse group of people around the world for several weeks now - but the frustration has been felt by Blacks for years.
The goal to simply be heard is slowly being answered through voices of change.
Tuesday
The dialogue about race relations and the divide within our community and country continues this week at WTOL 11.
That desire to be heard has spilled into streets and neighborhoods, in the form of protest, with voices heard loudly. Those voices of change are calling for an end to a dark history of racial inequality.
WTOL 11's Andrew Kinsey discussed the movement with Pastor Charles Allen the co-founder of Faith Leaders United for Change, Brother Washington Muhammad co-found of Community Solidarity Response Network of Toledo, and Zakiya Hatten co-founder of Toledo Together.
They are some of the community members who are leading the way on the front lines.
The conversation
Q: Over recent weeks, your organizations have been quite vocal, with protests, demonstrations. Some see this as a direct movement over a single issue, the death of George Floyd. Is that it or is it something larger than a single incident?
A: Pastor Allen: Well one, I would say, the single incident was a clarion call for us to remain, uh, at the issues that already exist. Not to let up. Because sometimes I think we can get a sense of false peace where things seem quiet ... that doesn’t mean we don’t have things going on that were not aware of. And we have a lot things in our own city that most of the public is not aware of and so. But George Floyd’s death was a clarion call for the nation to stand up against what we’ve already been fighting against all along.
Q: Brother Muhammad, talk about some of those disparities that Blacks face.
A: Well you know the fact that in 2014 we had the death of Sandra Bland, Mike Brown and Trayvon Martin...they always come in multiples before we start to do something and this time with Breonna Taylor, Brother Ahmaud Arbery and George Floyd, that produced an effect and what it brings about, it brings about a change now that we don’t necessarily depend on our local leadership as we’ve done before. So right now we’re planning some, we’re planning some non-traditional approaches to the problems that we all face and hopefully, everybody will be hearing about that you know, in the near future
Q: Zakiya in the recent days we’ve heard the words “systemic racism.” What is that, because the word racism could be jarring to some who don’t believe racism is still issue and what does this look like in 2020.
A: In my opinion, systemic racism is like basically even racism in your workplace, or where you go to school at. It’s racism within like how things are set up in the world because somebody like me would have the opportunities as somebody that was Caucasian you know so like I feel like that is basically what it means with systemic racism.
Q: Pastor, what does that look like?
A: Well it looks like, because a lot of things, we put under the banner of poverty and we describe poverty as that person’s issue or inability to rise above self challenges. But when you look into our legal system you see that Black men are more likely to go to prison for lesser crimes than white men. You look at our healthcare system, Black babies have the less chance being born with adequate healthcare and all those things, and then when you look into our school systems you say “well why our educational system has less, disparities than our white counterparts,” so when you look at a broad spectrum of disparities, a lot of times we had those disparities under the banner of poverty, which then will cause someone to think that poverty is the issue when in actuality we still have an issue with systemic racism at a lot of levels, even within some organizations. And so when we look at our police department, does our police department actually adequately reflect our community. So if our community is 13 percent or 19 percent African American, do we have 19 percent African American on the police force? And so we have 19 percent on the fire department? Do we have 19 percent of African Americans in any workplace at any given time anywhere, outside of the service industry?
Protesting has be been etched into our national soul. There has been no less than 25 major interactions since the founding of the United States since 1776. Native Americans, immigrant Americans, slaves and freemen alike, have protested and rebelled over things like stamps, tea, corn, whiskey and coal. Today it continues with the pursuit of equality, civil rights and the ability to live without fear.
Q: Brother Muhammad how is this movement, the current movement, different than protests and movements in the past and is the message the same?
A: I think that difference now is that we recognize that the institution of white supremacy and how it’s so subversive in each institute health, financial, education, media, law enforcement and we’re willing to call it out and also we’re willing to produce policies that will force the systems to recognize the problems of white supremacy and the effects of white supremacy on people of color and then demand and force that change. And that’s the difference between the youth of today rather than some of the adults my age of yesterday. We would go along to get along we would take everything based on face value. But the young people today, they’re able to push back with information, they’re able to do their research and then challenge us on the policies that we said, I mean that the ruling party said they were going to do in the first place and that’s the difference and the youth aren’t going to let up, they’re not going home. This is here to stay and there will be change.
Q: Zakiyah, let’s talk about that. We’re seeing these protests, these mass gatherings - why use that as a way to get your voice heard?
A: I feel like we’re empowered when we’re together so for our protests, we really like to have everybody’s voice be heard because a lot of people my age we have a lot of anger, built up aggression and stuff like that, so I feel like if we can hone that in and make an effective change about it then it would be really good. Having mass gatherings, bringing all of our people together, I feel like is the best way. That’s how my ancestors did it and we’re going to be able to do it even you know, greater.
Q: Pastor Allen, we’ve heard the phrase “Black Lives Matter.” We’ve seen it on posters. You have critics who say, “I can’t get on board with this because all lives matter.” Are they missing a point here?
A: I believe so. They’re missing a point and to say that one, they would try to use the Black Lives Matter maybe organization and some of the things underneath their bullet points of they exist for, as a reason not get involve especially, from the faith community. But when you realize, if you just erase, let's not talk about the organization, but let's just talk about the statement and that if all lives matter, then it shouldn’t matter that we would make a statement that Black lives matter.
Q: What’s the answer for change here? We’ve heard police reform, defunding police, what’s the answer?
A: Brother Muhammad - All the above. All the above and, there’s a big move to either abolish the police department, disband the police department, defund the police department. All those terms are extreme, however, people are dying and we can no longer have um, passive, solutions for extreme policies and we’re looking to defund the Toledo Police Department. We want to take those funds that are listed for law enforcement only to be shifted to more paramedic, paramedical departments that understand what a non-emergency call is, that understand what de-escalation means, to understand to use some social service skill, some calculated skills on calls that would be normally be designed or just for those that would just show up with a gun, a taser, handcuffs and club. See those things are going to have to change and we’re looking to shift the funding of how police and law enforcement in Toledo is funded and make sure that those funds are diverted to those professionals like EMTs, with those certifications that they can deescalate if there’s a call for help. That they can deescalate if there’s a domestic call, just as what we had in Oregon. Imagine if someone with the skill to deescalate rather than go showing up with bullets only. So we’re looking to make this happen and I believe we’re going to make it happen right here in Toledo. That’s one of the policies, of the few that we’re looking to implement in our city.
Q: Zakiyah, Pastor Allen, how long will this go on for and do we see change? Is it imminent?
A: Pastor Allen I think change is in the very near future, but you’re going to see it as the old reference to “what about Bob” you know story right, baby steps. You’re going to start to see small things change. And I think we have to start, like if we look at it as a building, we have to create building blocks. What’s our broad that thing we can do now? Then what can we add to it and what can we add to it? The issue is to not let up just off of one win. Because one win is not the championship. And so if we take a long-term approach a long-range approach and see something down the road but to say to the thing is that if we look at Obama’s 21st century policing, you know if you look at our force, our force we talk about defunding or diverting funds our force is not even at the adequate amount of officers that we need on the force right now. And so what I would say is yes we need, as we need trauma care and all these things, but how do we equip the community to come alongside of as well, because it’s easy to point the finger at the police department over a few bad apples but then how do we as a community come alongside of those things and say “hey these are the things we can provide if police does X-Y and Z, we would do this,” and so our approach is partnership and that’s where we’ve been approaching our police department and our mayor. How do we partner together to bring the resources alongside of what our city officials need now?
Q: Zakiyah what would you say to those who say that ‘this isn’t my problem, so I’m going to this one out”
Zakiyah: Like people of color or just anybody?
Andrew: Anybody.
A: So for somebody to say, for the all lives matter thing, so for somebody to say that it isn’t their problem, and they call themselves everybody matters, then how is it not your problem? We’re people you know. I believe in God and God made all things on earth, and so if He made white and black people and Hispanic people, all these different shades, then why is not a problem? If you believe in God and you pray to him every single night, then my life should matter just as much as your life matters when you’re praying for yourself, you’re praying for everybody that you care about. So for somebody to feel like they shouldn’t be involved and that it doesn’t matter to them then they can’t say in the same breath that all life matters to them, because it doesn’t.